I’ve seen some people on the A+ side actually put off by Carrier’s invective. I have my anorak, several spiral-bound notepads, a 2b pencil, and a flask of weak lemon drink. Mind you how else could one defend such nonsense. It speaks to those of us who see atheism as more than just a lack of belief in god. And finally, while women’s rights should be advocated, men’s rights shouldn’t be ignored. Atheists plus we protest racism, In your debates with Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, Michael Shermer, and others, did the atheists ever make you sweat? See also: Atheism debates and Atheism vs. Christianity debates The new atheist Christopher Hitchens was known for being an eloquent and passionate public speaker who injected humor in his public speaking.. Likewise, with the other women who have received similar threats: No names of these atheists. And its usually not. skepticism and rationality. Like any other thing, religion must be criticized, there are a lot of bad things that happen in every religion. Because if you are a member of the other little splinter group, you are a fiend and a traitor. Their brand of feminism is the priority, and everything else is an add on. Thanks! I hate the Religious already. Fair enough. But not even a word on that. Perhaps I’m being uncharitable here. @�zOr�}|w��*K�w�R2Ɛ But wait. Reg: Atheist People’s Front. If you ask me, Jen McCreight created Atheism+ just so she could inflate her ego. Diversity should be encouraged and accommodated, but it should not be the primary goal of a movement that is primarily about something else. I therefore welcome Atheism Plus as a good next step towards a just resolution of this problem. Nov 13, 2014 - This Pin was discovered by Marcel Gagne. Although Atheism Plus no longer has much of a presence within the atheist movement, many atheists affiliated with the faction continue to argue that the atheist community perpetuates inequality, has a “sexism problem” and that it is an “old boys’ club” (McCreight 2011). As we know, the term ‘atheist’ describes our lack of belief in (or denial of) the existence of gods. [This speech was delivered before the Society of Separationists in 1976. It’s simply another layer of stigmatism that is coddling an emotional response from those who are willing to follow the herd. What about post-structuralist feminism? “Oh and a blog dedicated to harassing women who speak up doxed her.” “Death threats and rape threats are not acceptable. He said if you disagree with anything they believe in, then you’re a vile and repugnant human being. Brian: A lot! I thought freethought was beyond such trivial notions. Thanks for the comment. Myers constantly tells women that their opinions are invalid because they’re mentally ill. Atheism Plus had a website that was active from 2012 to 2016. I have nothing against that; people should moderate, but it provides a warped view of real reactions. Change ), You are commenting using your Google account. Where Feminism and Atheism and Social Justice meet. Atheists plus we use critical thinking and skepticism. Thankfully Atheism Plus was short lived and djed out but I wish Hitchens was around to destroy them. At the latest TAM, Pamela Gay spoke about females in science. ... "Plus one horse-woman" ... She regularly speaks out against the treatment of women in Islamic doctrine and society and is a proponent of free speech … One question I have regarding this whole A+ thing is “isn’t atheism good enough as it is?” I don’t see the point in adding a few extra things to it already. I don’t mind them telling me what they believe, so long as they tolerate opposing viewpoints. 952 members in the AgainstAtheismPlus community. People have received DMCA notices for ridiculous reasons. Or the People’s Front for Judea? Atheism People in our society today who have the atheist point of view on religion, which is the belief that there is no god, are going against the so-called norms of society, and therefor are seen as deviant. Watson’s behavior has established that her claims cannot be taken at face value. )They filed suit against both the County of Palm Beach and the City of Boca Raton, where a 2017 ordinance prohibited the practice. Richard Carrier recently gave a talk at the American Atheists Convention 2013 in Austin, Texas, and in the speech, he rightly credited Jen McCreight with coming up with the term, “Atheism Plus.” Of course, atheism is compatible with ‘belief in nothing’, but usually atheists will hold other positive beliefs about other issues. Because they don’t reflect McCreight’s own political views? One common misunderstanding is that being an atheist means ‘believing in nothing’. Thunderf00t escaped, but now they have hypnotised Carrier, who was the last person in the FreeFromThoughtBlog hive to have acquiesced to such irrational bonkers insanity. It’s not a worldview, and never could be. If it’s more than some losers on the internet trolling for kicks and you think it’s a legitimate threat, get the police involved, sheesh. Join Now! Benson’s “threatening” email was nothing of the sort, not even by an overly charitable reading. That dissent, apart from being evil is also presented in religious language, a sin to be repented of, presumably the sincerity and acceptance of repentance to be judged by the hierarchy? The daughter of the defeated president announced the news on Twitter, inviting her 10 million-plus followers to follow her on the network. As for anonymous internet threats of rape or violence, they should be reported to the authorities as well, especially if deemed credible. You are an awful person. I wonder whether “Atheism+” is taking off because so many of the advocates are in the USA, where atheism is a big deal? They will become the troglodytes that they insist control everything outside the safety and ‘civilized’ borders of their community. Gah. Who were the atheists who thought it was funny? ( Log Out / Looking forward to the documentary’s release, he took time to answer some questions from Evolution News. You highlighted many things that I initially thought about this A+ initiative and raised some points that I hadn’t considered. The people spearheading this including many of the bloggers and readers at FTB are mistaken in trying to make atheism into a worldview, or believing that it was when they became involved in the various organizations. 4 0 obj Why You Should Go to Church. That is very unfair. As mentioned above, I’d have to agree with the 3rd point he makes – that […]. I’m sceptical of that, too. You have been sucked into the dogma, hook line and sinker. For instance, one might be an atheist and be pro-life, or a socialist, or a preference utilitarian, etc. Carrier may have simply chosen not to publish your comment. One might be that debunking pseudo-scientific claims is a hobby for them. It is the opposite of theism, which is the belief that at least one god exists.A person who rejects belief in gods is called an atheist.Theism is the belief in one or more gods. Justin was threatened with assault. Not to mention that these folks taking such easy offense is good cause to become enraged!? If they go down this road, they will learn that everything is in fact the same and that they are essentially in a movement with people from various political persuasions, some more radical than others, and those others are going to want their viewpoint put forth as well, while the only thing they truly have in common is atheism. McCreight writes: I don’t want good causes like secularism and skepticism to die because they’re infested with people who see issues of equality as mission drift. In August 2012, Jennifer McCreight founded a movement known as Atheism Plus that "applies skepticism to everything, including social issues like sexism, racism, politics, poverty, and crime." delusions of grandeur are what come to mind when I read that post. Atheists plus we care about social justice, I could add more: I’m an atheist plus a socialist. by Pat Flynn. Yes, and read his ‘About’ section. What about atheism plus the view that immigration is out of control? What about those who maintain that gender role is a social construnct in which biology plays little or minimal part? .” Now the A+ people want to take the stereotype that atheists are associated with all aspects of the modern “progressive” ideology and make it official, and if you don’t march in ideological lockstep with them on every single issue, you are an outcast, and in reality a sub-human (If you don’t think that the bloggers on FtB think that people who disagree with them are sub-human, just read PZ’s blog for a while). Where’s the difference with those who became ‘enraged’ over a cartoon? *shrug*. Jen has never listened to advice that does not suit her self-serving agenda. However, McCreight’s idea that atheism should be seen as ‘more than just a lack of belief in god’ does not make a lot of sense. There is no need for ‘Wagnerism+’ for those who are Wagnerites plus believe in gay rights and so forth. Sickening.”. Death threats and rape threats are not acceptable. You are not my people.”, “Until and unless they realize their own sins and repent of them.”, “In the meantime, I call everyone now to pick sides.”. Reg: People’s Front! Enemy? Maybe, fewer women are interested in the movement (just like, apparently from what I have read, fewer men than women are interested in church). It is a positive belief accompanying some people’s atheism after all. With Talk, your phone will speak what you type. Speech given at Skepticamp 2013. That is fucking evil. It’s not a worldview, and never could be. In Europe it can be pretty boring! But it would be much worse if women did not take action against those who threaten them with rape – especially if you base a large part of your identity as someone who actively fights such abominations. The email that made Benson decide not to go was from a concerned friend. Examples of figure of speech in a sentence, how to use it. I have to agree with you and Abbie – making atheism a central feature is exclusionary and contradicts the concept of social justice. These are only some of the stories I’ve seen. Maybe it’s even about money; that I really can’t tell, but I do know that delusions of grandeur are a huge part of this thing. But I have little doubt that the movement itself will resonance deeply among those who feel they are not only right, but self-righteous. I hope Twitter was contacted about it, so that those who engaged in that sickening behavior would be disciplined and banned. It is unclear how we decide what does or does not count as part of ‘Atheism+’. You make some very good points, but I believe that are two separate issues here: Winning souls for Atheism and trying to silence bigots. While he gave this talk back in October, it wasn’t online until now. I am still surprised that more have not noticed it and spoken up. I’m not sure that “serious” and not ego-driven are mutually exclusive. I do think that she’s serious and not just ‘inflating her ego’. Why does she not campaign for the idea that there should be a new wave of social justice? Now I would like to talk about sexism in the light of male privilege. Make your phone say anything you want in many languages! Considering the Atheism Plus movement as a whole, then, the topic of economic justice is more or less an afterthought. And why not? Only repetitions of the claims. “Enlightenment” is better than “Atheism+”. It is atheism plus a condemnation of sexist, racist, or homophobic trolls. We might as atheists also fight these causes, but it is not part of atheism. You can also import text from any other apps. So far Atheism Plus is consistent with the predominant New Atheist viewpoint that religion itself is a bad thing and that there should be no atheistic, rationalistic religions to … Thanks for the comment! Brian: Can I…, join your group? You don’t get a more inclusive and friendly movement through ostracism and bullying. We cannot use foul language anymore? Confronted by the onslaught of worldwide atheism, believers are disunited and frequently bewildered. This is a writeup of my notes for the talk I delivered yesterday at Skepticamp 2013, entitled Critical Atheism – left and right in Australian atheism/why we need an atheist Left. We should be able to talk about these issues, but already ‘Atheism+’ seems unwelcoming to those who question it. Science is not the priority. It’s difficult to see what A+ hopes to achieve with the policies of marginalisation and ostracisation that you espouse Richard. Atheism plus is an attempt to define a new subgroup in the atheist movement - a subgroup that is concerned with atheism plus some elements of social justice. Stan: Oh. 36 Amazing Comments on Bishop Barron’s Interview with Jordan Peterson. In my last post, I discussed white privilege and how to find out if you have it.Now I want to turn to another kind of privilege, one that is particularly relevant to the atheist community right now. Jon Steingard, Atheism, and the Scandal of Evil. Judith: Are you sure? Is this a trick question or something? Arguments should be interpreted most charitably so that the strongest argument prevails. Posted in Uncategorized | Tagged atheism, freethought blogs, social justice | 74 Comments. Are sex positive feminists or sex negative femanists reasonable? October 13, 2013 Uncategorized hanaleah. Par for the course, I certainly get my share of various threats. It supports importing web pages directly from the browser to listen to them. Atheos is derived from a, meaning "without," and theos, meaning “deity”. Call me an optimist, but I have high hopes for this movement. Splitters. I mean, of course, the more people join the cause the better, but at the same time, we need to respect that people have different interests, and with only 24 hours in the day, people might choose different activities. Adding a + sign to the atheism symbol is fairly obvious and perhaps two groups can think that up independently. Ignoring concerns expressed by men does not help women. Atheists will be used to mischaracterisations of their position. Is A+ the People’s Judean Front? May 28, 2016 - Atheist Humour, Memes, Discussion, News, & Videos A †, we’re Athesits… but we behave like Christians:. You do it by being inclusive and friendly. you say you are an atheist . He is a full-time faculty member at Portland State University. Certainly the use of such aggressive language such as ‘well you can just fuck off’ , ‘you’re either with us or against us’, is hardly likely to endear this nascent organisation, (or whatever it turns out to be), to many people who might have some worthwhile viewpoints to offer. What about a welfare state? Where? I agree with Claus. Fantastic post, Notung. I hate the Religious as much as anybody. Atheism is not the priority. The talk of raping Skechicks, however, is inappropriate and gross. Indeed, back when Gay was just a Christian ‘skeptic’, not someone speaking about ‘women’, A+ was happy to ridicule her as well. Not ‘Atheists+’. Another reason is utter intolerance for any diversity of opinion. Most of the posts on it concern me a great deal in their use of tribal language. The only people we hate more than the Religous are the fucking Atheist People’s Front. In any case, the Atheism Plus website wound up picking a somewhat different symbol resembling an @ si… This initiative only serves to divide Atheism, into Atheists, and Holier-Than-Thou-Atheists. I liked your post though, especially this: If “Atheism+” raises awareness that “atheism” is not an end-point, then it will serve a useful purpose. I prefer the focused, goal-oriented work that I do. If Jen McCreight (sp?) However, Hitchens had his critics in terms of his public debates. Out of morbid curiosity I perused the comment section on the manifesto. Dunning was attacked because they didn’t like a picture that he used for an album cover. ���-�(�g�EY���z�bBX�u�i���}Kj�PGv��>JɓBDJt�˫�0ɤ���'��,�[�W ����0��ݵCȣ�^�i�����r�����H��� ���B���}��Y����Hq������I��zoTc���;��.�c. Consider this: We have not heard one single name of those “hundreds of atheists” who, according to Rebecca Watson, has threatened to rape her, thought she should be raped, or that she was too ugly to rape. Atheism Plus: We’re Atheists… But We Behave Like Christians! Now it’s time for a third wave – a wave that isn’t just a bunch of “middle-class, white, cisgender, heterosexual, able-bodied men” patting themselves on the back for debunking homeopathy for the 983258th time or thinking up yet another great zinger to use against Young Earth Creationists. How Religion Supports Science, But Atheism Doesn’t. At the very least, those who threaten with rape should be reported to the police. said that, non plussers are garbage, well, there’s no way I can agree to that. In a rare speech, Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei criticized the West for its poor response to the outbreak of the novel coronavirus, as cases continue to grow in Iran. Social justice is not the priority. You speak as though the issues were cut n dried, and as though you have some sort of certainty or clarity about who the people with integrity and compassion and reasonableness are. You (and Abbie and Barbara) make excellent & important & astute points. The Freedom From Atheism Foundation was created as a grassroots civil rights Facebook group to help protect the rights of religious believers, address the rising tide of intolerant atheism across the world, and be a beacon of hope and support for victims of atheist hate. You’re in. Anyway, I learned that it’s OK to post my home address because I’m annoying, and that posting my business address in always OK so that people can try to damage my career as a lawyer because it’s relevant to my online behavior…or vice versa… or something. All wonderful points here. I think they would answer that adding Raelianism would contradict the other principles, e.g. It might also put off* some atheists from identifying as an atheist because they disapprove of one or more of Atheism+’s doctrines. One that is supportive of LGBT issues, feminism, people of colour, and one that embraces social justice. One of the listed goals is “proper language”. In August 2012, Jennifer McCreight (the organizer of Boobquake) founded a movement within atheism known as Atheism Plus, or A+, that "applies skepticism to everything, including social issues like sexism, racism, politics, poverty, and crime". 837 thoughts on “ New Atheism: The Godlessness That Failed ” darovas November 18, 2019 at 10:40 am. 2) There are already movements that support these extra causes. It’s inclusive and actually provides useful tools for making the world a better place for everyone, not just those who agree with me. This is the Anti "Atheism Plus" subreddit: for those who feel that Atheism Plus is either a … Congratulations to Jen McCreight (hereafter JM) for putting forth an idea that struck a responsive chord. There will always be an implicit minus sign attached to those who are “only” atheists. Atheism Plus (hereafter A+) has arrived with a bang—it was just five days from Jen McCreight’s first post on the subject to recognition in the New Statesman. The info that was disclosed about her was her public business address (and her home address) which can be found on the web in seconds. Atheism Plus Freezing Your Peaches. None of which are gods, or are believed to reside in any dimension other than right here on Earth, in the here and now. Professor Lennox has debated a number of very prominent atheists. The notion that offending religious sensibilities is par for the course but dare ye not offend the sacred ones for all are equal but some are more equal than others. Twas little more than casual dismissive insult, exhortation to GTFO and the mere assertion that a naysayer was irrational or similar, and thus presumably no more need be said in answer to their points. Is it ok to be a Marxist but not a Capitalist? “Taking off”? Their behaviour stinks. Brian: I don’t want to sell this stuff, it’s only a job. discrimination at atheist conferences, just as there also should be no such discrimination at Wagner Society meet-ups. %PDF-1.3 What do you suggest?”. Call me sceptical. Reg: No, piss off. It’s about ego. Thus, Atheism is pigeon-holed into a specific wing of the political spectrum, with clear implications: You may be a conservative Atheist, but you are not a real Atheist unless you are of McCreight’s political colour. To be honest, the whole thing is utterly ridiculous. Reg: Oh, yeah? My prediction is that they will predominantly be liberal/left-wingers. Let your phone read the news for you! Brian: Excuse me. He’s a ‘renowned author’ with ‘avid fans’ who ‘span the world’! Shortly after the introduction of the symbol it came to light that the Atheism Plus symbol is almost identical to a symbol that's been used by Non-Believers Giving Aid for at least four years.This may be intentional plagiarism, cryptomnesia (unintentional plagiarism), or (most likely) coincidental. (Although there is an impressive range of memorabilia to collect .. hmm …). They began to vilify D.J. Her post about sexism mentions her disappointment that Boobquake wasn’t an empowering, pro-science protest, but fails to mention the way she dismissed and argued with everyone who tried to warn her (like me) that it was a bad idea. ‘Their particular brand of feminism + atheists (sometimes)’. Wave a flag of liberal vague values, and everyone who doesn’t take up the charge in your wake is against those liberal values. Being an atheist I want to give a speech about atheism but my professor has one rule the topic of my choosing has be something about american culture or value. Imagine if we were discussing this fundamentalist Christian belief: The Black Race was cursed by God when the father of the Black Race, Ham, looked upon the nakedness of his stupefied father, Noah. Atheism Plus in its original form was falsely attacked as promoting a feminist purist extremism when in fact it wasn’t; it was only after that false attack rendered it a useless term that some of its advocates became those very feminist purist extremists, thus destroying the entire enterprise by turning it into what its enemies accused it of being. Reg: Fuck off! That would be a mistake, in my opinion. We are all human beings, and courting rituals are normal. Atheists should not be doing this. And a final reason is that there are simply less women in the hard sciences than there are men. << /Length 5 0 R /Filter /FlateDecode >> Although Atheism Plus no longer has much of a presence within the atheist movement, many atheists affiliated with the faction continue to argue that the atheist community perpetuates inequality, has a “sexism problem” and that it is an “old boys’ club” (McCreight 2011). Only when convenient. For instance, there should be no sexist or racist (…etc.) It involves positive ethical beliefs in addition to a commitment to rational, philosophical and scientific inquiry. What about conservative feminists who embrace and adopt a male model of success and achievment. Brilliant article. . But it also isn’t new that vague, grandiose ideals get people excited. It won’t help anyone on the path to A plusness any faster. I don’t just take the word of random strangers at face value, you know. أهلا بسرڤر اللادينيه! An attempt has been made to get Abbie Smith fired and expelled. You need to be careful and clearly distinguish between: 1) There are fewer women than men in the Atheist (etc) movement. Atheism Lawsuit: Illinois Politician Claims Atheist Sign Is 'Hate Speech' William J. Kelly, a Chicago Republican, is suing the Illinois Secretary of State for allowing an atheist sign to be placed next to a nativity scene in the state capitol. ! That would be where they think skepticism and rationality leads, of course!”. Carrier’s post uses language that, in my head at least, sounds like a movie version of “god” shouting out commandments. That would be a contradiction. Atheism plus is an attempt to define a new subgroup in the atheist movement - a subgroup that is concerned with atheism plus some elements of social justice. Ultimately, I believe that if this doesn’t die a death on it’s own in a few months, as suggested in a previous comment, it will become clear how foolish it was to try to turn atheism into a sociopoltical movement while still trying to maintain the semblance that everything is the same, there’s just more.